Custom shape Start Menu - margin values, how to calculate them?

[nnq2603]

I started to dig in to custom Start menu aspect of Visual Style but it's harder than I thought. I use Win 7 Style Builder as regular user and already done some task with it. And I saw many custom-shape Start menu of themes in the internet, but some of them got quite tricky with size margin and content margin which I haven't yet to handle. I try used some msstyle as a base skin to test my selfmade start menu but failed coz I couldn't figure out the logic of margin numbers. When I set it low, the image looks stretched and shorter than it really is, when I fine turning the number to higher value, it suddenly dissappear and start menu display blank space instead of valid image.

This's the photoshop layout I made for my custom Start menu, but just couldn't get it right into a theme. Could some experienced user explain for me how you guys calculated dimensions of those input field in Win7 StyleBuilder? I mean when I create a layout in Photoshop with slides accurate to pixels. Based on those dimensions (unit pixel) of my photoshop file which I fully aware of, Can I calculate the rest of number in sizemargin and content margin for Win7 Style builder to work correctly? Thanks for reading and answering.

http://i.imgur.com/Q5T3c56.jpg

I saw a lot of anime theme and they did this task like nothing, all kind of crazy shape Start menu can happens within their theme, I still can't do just the one like above. Any help would be great.

[Mr GRiM]

Is this for Windows 7, 8 or 10, if it's for 8 or 10 then you are using SiB and this task is made a bit easier as sizing margins work better and how you would expect them to, the main issue you going to have with this style is that there are no places that the start menu can resize itself depending on the amount of programs that are displayed, you would have to limit the number of programs displayed so it does not stretch the images higher then it is now, you will also need to set the default pane size to match the dimensions of your images.

the DefaultPaneSize needse to be set for the following locations:

Start Menu > Panels > Aero > Top > Programs List > Panels > Programs List
Start Menu > Panels > Aero > Top > Places List > Panels > Places List

If they do not exist in those locations they will be here instead:

Start Menu (For SIB Only) > Panels > Basic > Programs List > Panels > Programs List
Start Menu (For SIB Only) > Panels > Basic > Places List > Panels > Places List

The last number is the hight of the image the one before is the width.

[nnq2603]

Thanks, it's Windows 7 I was asking about. Yes, I know there's problem with this kind of shape, and I'm totally ok with a certain number of programs in list.

I set the default pane size match my image dimensions but they still not fit each other...

The path of images (in msstyle) I knew according guide and public tutorial in internet. But I think my main issue is how I calculate the margin value according my custom dismensions... not that I have to force the image (psd layout) to resemble some default size value in Start Menu, because my Startmenu is seperated far aside and would requires adjust/modifying default value in those properties, is that right? How...

Example (not my type but there're many of them with custom shape Startmenu):
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I think when those artists design their menu shape in any graphic app, they'll decide the shape and size or menu based their taste first. Then later they go into Windows Style builder and adjust/modify the defaultsize, size margin, content margin values according their designs.

How they use default value as a base despite their shape is far different in design. My guess is they design first and adjust/modify size value in WSB later according their dimensions. But the question is how?... I try to set default size to match my images dimensions but the result test displayed still incorrect. How to have correct value of other input fields?

I'll post the iron start menu problem I got in WSB here soon.. hope make it more clear what I did wrong.

[Mr GRiM]

it would be easier to help if you posted a screen of how yours looks now and maybe even the msstyles so I can take a look at where your at, the list view is a pain on Windows 7 as the sizing margins don't work as you expect, also make sure the default pane size width is set the same on the other start menu images, more programs, logoff, also you will need to make it so the search bar is removed, all custom shape start menus like this require the search bar (open box) to be removed, this is done by setting the content margins in openbox to 1, -1000, -1000, -1000

[nnq2603]

Have to admit that English isn't my native language so pls ignore any odd spelling/grammar errors.
Few days later I accidentally lost the 1st psd file show above. Until today I've got some spare time to recreate it (part of stocks still there). So it's not gonna looks exactly the same.

Here it goes:

When I set size margin to match default size (and image dimensions), then it looks like this: Everything out of place.
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When I keep default size match img dimensions and go trial+error with number progams in list, size margin, content margin..etc... then it still looks this bad: Programlist is somehow alright, Placeslist cropped out the left part, OpenBox stretched and incorrected placement, Logoff dissapear... (and I try to figure this out for hours but not better, feel like lucky guess).
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Below is my psd looks like.
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Below is how they imported into WSB (I use another msstyle to did this test, it was not created in style with Start menu - coz I only have startmenu in mind when I tested this stuff, so just keep focus on my Start menu issues):

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...also you will need to make it so the search bar is removed, all custom shape start menus like this require the search bar (open box) to be removed, this is done by setting the content margins in openbox to 1, -1000, -1000, -1000
I saw some theme did the trick with similar value you said about content margins, but I didn't get why. But while we're at this. I want to ask more about search bar. Because I see a theme still have this item within their very custom shape startmenu.

This theme still have search box and manage to customize their shape and size. I don't doubt your words that it'd be more difficult to make custom shape with searchbox enable but in this opportunity having experienced user like you I just want to know more. Thanks.
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Or this searchbox still in the exactly place/position of default Windows Aero one, so it could remain?

[Mr GRiM]

OK well your default pane size width on the places list needs to be increased, you will have to match that width on the logoff as well, make sure your extended places list has the same size, when setting the sizing margins for the places list make sure you set the left value as 0, so you want set it to 0, 337, 0, 574, this will make the image size from the right rather then the left that doesn't work on Windows 7, on SiB for 8 and 10 Tihiy has corrected this issue and start menus can be sized in the correct way, this is the only way I have been able to do it on 7 though.

With the search bar on the theme you have shown there is no actual search box as the content margins that you set are not only to remove the search box but that is also what removes the blur behind the entire start menu, to remove the search area you still also need to set the default pane size height to 0, what you see in the screen you posted though is just the text area that still remains, however this search text will be forced over the left side of the start menu, this means you would have to redesign your start menu to do the same, eliminate the space on the left side of your start menu and move your search box completely to the left.

I am sure that wasn't the look you were going for so you would be better off removing that area instead, as you probably know, the search function is not removed just because the search bar isn't visible, you can still type in your search and still show the results.

[nnq2603]

Thanks a lot. With your advice I'm able get the dimensions and size margin go together better than before. Previous attempts, I didn't count the drop-shadow area (2 sides of menu) into dimensions of logoff image, so it keeps cutoff the placeslist and stretched itself. When I set logoff image to Truesize then its alignment is incorrect compare to Placeslist and seems no way to fix. I've to include transparent area to both sides of logoff image in order to match Placeslist dimensions.
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Without the search box, I've to re-slice Programslist in my photoshop layout to match its height with Placeslist+logoff. Otherwise their positions will misplace. But I haven't yet.

Thanks again, your guide is clear and time saving. (: Still have something to ask about this but I'll try go figure out myself first.

[nnq2603]

Done some test and experiment in logoff and Openbox and I see there's a seemingly hard limitation on y dimensions (height) of them. I try some value but seem any time I slice image height >90px will returns error in WSB. Error is from my wrong doing something else or it's actually limitation of that part in W7 Start menu UI? I think it's limitation.

I tested lower part with the gun. The overall look doesn't fit I know, but while I'm at it, I gonna do some experiment with all elements of Start menu and taskbar to see what end up with...
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And I didn't find out the blank space at All Programs position, what's that path? (saw it somewhere before but lost keep tracing it) Thanks

[Mr GRiM]

If you start using too many large images then you will get a msstyles error, the way round it is to resize any large images you can and use sizing margins to make them stretch to the size you want, that's not going to be possible on the start menu though, maybe some of the basic images can be removed if your not going to use them, there is also a bunch of images in Vista Legacy Start Menu that can be deleted.

The path for all programs is Start Menu > Panels > Basic > Programs List > Controls > More Programs Tab.